I think Godfather Deimne has been very patient, any other Godfather/mother would have gone to war over earlier issue's.

NY has always been very decent

godfather deimne was doing the sensible thing and protecting his city. whe the need arose he wen't to war. i agree with your statement that the godfather of this wonderful city has always been decent.  but patient? well, yes, but he also saw no need to get his people killed needlessly.

Bruiser walks up to the few stragglers standing around on the streets still discussing this issue and begins to address them.  Ok so I have kept my mouth shut and listened to all this shit in the streets now for two days and I am amazed at some of the statements made by some of you.  Anyone that thinks Godfather Deimne should have waited till LV rebuilt and created a plan to attack him should just turn your gun on your own head and pull the trigger.  I mean COME ON!!

Bruiser begins to laugh at these ridiculous statements.   Any leader worth a shit would never hear of someone making comments of attack rather they be jokingly or not, and not take them serious.   I would have done the exact same thing should I have been in the great Godfather Deimnes shoes. 

Bruiser lights a cigar and takes a deep drag.   The bottom line is this,  Godfather Deimne blessed this community with an explanation of why he decimated this city and that's all it was.  It wasn't propaganda, it sure as fuck wasn't some "Spin" on the situation, just hard facts.  Deimne didn't have to tell us shit, he could have just let all of us sit here and wonder but he's gracious enough to feed our curiosity, so let's stop giving him shit shall we?   Bruiser shakes a few hands and hands out a few cigars before making his departure.

I think everyone pretty much had Bruiser.

Nods to Boss Gwarble,  you're right, just needed to get that off my chest.

I have kept my thoughts to myself thus far, and not decided to speak on the topic of the war on my father. It's difficult to know where to start when I'm new to La Cosa Nostra myself and I did not know the inner workings of my father's business. However, Mr Turkey, you stand there and call Cryptic a shit leader. Who are you again? I don't even intend on glancing at your rank, yet you have the audacity to pass judgement on someone who achieved a rank that evades your bloodline. Clearly he must have been doing something right to be a leader for 5 months before his demise. I tell you what, that is some shit leadership right there. I mean when he was a Don and the leader of a 50 man family, his family was one of the best if I may say so myself. 9 Dons in his family alone. Most of the people in the family had been there for months themselves. If they were not loyal then why were they still there? Why had they not gone rogue to try and take out this "shit leader"?

The fact that you are appearing as an extremely bitter individual, coincidentally the son of Lucretia's Right Hand, is very unbecoming for you and perhaps you should take a step back and think "Oh hold on, maybe I should realise that I'm making myself look bad by insulting a former Godfather when my ancestors have never achieved anything like the success that Cryptic achieved. Maybe I should contain my bitter attitude toward him." Seriously homez, it happened, get over it and move on.

While I'm here, Mr JacobWeber was the individual who betrayed the whole of Las Vegas and perhaps he wasn't as loyal as I thought he might be. He joined from your father's family if I recall, yet my father still opted to give him a chance. I am of the opinion that once someone has it in their mindset that they are going to seek revenge on the city that took out their former leader, they cannot be swayed no matter how good the leadership may be, or how many opportunities are given to them. He did what he thought was right and I will not stand here call him names for his actions. His conscience and the rest of these fine Mafioso will be the judge of him, knowing that he had no second thoughts in betraying his whole city and spitting in the face of the very code we stand by every day of our lives.

I would appreciate it Mr Turkey, if you could please allow my father to rest in peace and not continue to besmirch his name because of your own bitterness toward him over your father's death. At least have some sort of respect for the dead. Continually being a blunt instrument and calling him a shit leader is merely lowering people's opinions of you as you namecall like an impudent child.

Allow Godfather Cryptic to rest in peace? Then it might be an idea for the kin of his former city to not come out here bitching, moaning, making false claims and blaming anyone bar Cryptic and balian for the fate of their city.

Now, I'm not one to make false accusations.... unlike some it clearly seems... so again, let me lay some facts on the line.

Both Barney and Emoretti seem to be putting a lot of weight into our mafia tenants and the importance of omerta here. Ironic really, given that both of their fathers saw fit to act differently. Back in the day, when only a Don, Cryptic more than once came to me discussing Las Vegas business. I'm not saying I don't enjoy getting the inside scoop, but I have to say had it been one of my leaders sharing this info outside of my city, they'd have been dead on the spot.

Sibilo, the father of our ethically outstanding and morally incorruptable friend Emoretti, on numerous occasions came to me with internal family business from Don Cryptic's family. Including family mails, detailed family information and numerous other things that should never have left the HQ halls. Most of this while acting as right hand man for the family.

In light of this, I find the majority of the comments made somewhere between laughable and outright hypocritical.

Now, in terms of the 'traitor'. Both Barney and Emoretti have squarely laid the blame on one mans door. The facts, they neither have a clue how I came across this information. Before you dare point a finger or cast accusations, especially at a now member of New York, get your facts straight. Hell, if you really wanted to know how I found out you could have come and talked to me. I'd given Emoretti more than enough clues to figure out what happened, yet he still couldn't see the wood for the trees.

The fact that someone was left alive doesn't mean they were or are a snitch. The fact that you are willing to jump to conculsions doesn't mean that you are right. Have you even checked to see how many former LV members were allowed to find new homes? Anyone who received a nod from a leader that they'd ensure that that member wouldn't be a threat was spared. I wasn't out to crucify everyone, I didn't have a scorched earth policy unlike Godfather Cryptic, I wanted the situation caused by Cryptic and balian ended and quickly and painlessly as possible. End of.

So please, before you try and take a moral high ground, make sure you're standing on a firm footing. When you do it simply trying to talk through your ass.... well, you're just inviting me to kick it!

Barney, whoever the snitch was - if it did come from an individual, I've no idea and it sounds like most people don't - and if they were indeed motivated by previous acts against their bloodline or their former leader(s), then you have to admit, they did a pretty sterling job at bearing their grudge and fucking Las Vegas over. No?

The fact it was handed to them on a platter by a mouthy Don, no less, will no doubt add to the satisfaction he holds within as he wanders these streets. Lets not forget, by your average working man's standards, most of us on these shores can be treacherous bastards at times, albeit within certain cosa nostra codes, so lets not be too quick to try and take a moral high ground. Fortunately for him, if he exists, the only people this snitch will have directly upset, are dead and buried and he has achieved his goal if that's what you are indicating when you mention revenge.

It's not about me attempting to take a moral high ground. I am merely requesting that an individual allow my father to rest in peace and not besmirch his name so crassly. I believe any son would feel the same way were they to see someone insulting their father while his blood still lines the streets.

Godfather Deimne, I can tell you that only one individual who was in the room when balian said what he said survived. Are you claiming that is coincidence? It also renders the point about other surviving LV members redundant as there is only one survivor from the hitsquad room. Not sure why you're attempting to defend that man when the evidence is clearly pointing in one direction, unless of course massive coincidence has taken place and the traitor is dead, and Mr Weber is just a very lucky man considering he has not earned Made Man in your city, unless you have very lax requirements, ie. joining your city earns him the Made Man button.

Ah yes, I'm bitching, moaning and making false accusations. I've discussed the "accusation", now it's time to address the "bitching and moaning." A request that someone give my father a shred of respect, and it was a composed request as to a "omg leave my daddy alone :(", is now seen as bitching and moaning? I beg to differ on that front. In fact, I've not even addressed your reasons to war. I could have come out here and whined, moaned, and yes there was some spin on one of your motives but I chose not to. Why beat the dead horse when it's unnecessary? Whining and moaning about your actions wont change a goddamn thing, so I have no intention of doing so. I addressed you in private directly after it happened and commended your actions in fact, if that doesn't show you that there's no bitterness between you and I then I'm not sure what else I can do.

Oh finally, I think you'll find that it wasn't Cryptic or Deimne involved in that conversation. Two chaps named Marco and Satanta took part in that one, but I see that you're enjoying twisting tales at the moment so I'll leave you to it.

Excuse me? Point out one single instance of where I spun one single element of this discussion? I went out of my way to show the issues that had arose in order to show that Don balian had potentially justified reasons to take exception to me. He went totally the wrong way with it, but in the interest of laying the cards on the table, without spin, I included it.

Point out one single element of this that has been spun or please don't dare accuse me of what is in my own humble opinion a blatent lie against me.

I never once suggested you bitched or moaned. I said that the kin of your fathers former members had. Guess what? They had. There was never a personal issue between NY and LV nor was there between myself and Cryptic. No element of this war was part of a personal move, simply a move to protect the people I care about. One I always would and always will make, as Godfather Cryptic was all too well aware knowing me as he did.

So... the only way for me to possibly hear details of a conversation is if it comes directly from a person in that room to me? Really? And here was me under the impression that if someone in a room shares it outside of that room, that person decides to pass it on, etc etc I can still get the information. Obviously I must be incorrect and I stand firmly corrected.

Ohhh, and when chilling in a coffee shop, I don't care if Godfather Cryptic might say "hey, call me marco"... if he chooses to discuss valuable city information to which my only reply is "that's nothing to do with me, you really need to talk to Lucretia and sort it out" (or swap Lucretia for Cryptic and the same fits for Emoretti)... you are breaking omerta and are bang out of order 100%.

Nothing sickens me more than a "I was drunk on coffee and didn't know what I was saying, it wasn't me". Coffee shop or street, you mind your words and remember that actions have impacts.

"Allow Godfather Cryptic to rest in peace? Then it might be an idea for the kin of his former city to not come out here bitching, moaning, making false claims and blaming anyone bar Cryptic and balian for the fate of their city."

You expect the 80+ kin of the fallen soldiers to not say a peep about it? In my ancestors' experience with MANY wars, we have never recorded an instance where the entire "kin of fallen soldiers" kept their mouth shut. In that way, it seems a bit harsh to hold Godfather Cryptic responsible (even after death) for those that bitch and moan. Let Cryptic rest in peace, for what has he done wrong? Is Cryptic's son supposed to have command over the kin of his fallen members? I hope not. Otherwise you could have a minor rebellion on your hands.

Cryptic had very little, if any control over the circumstances which brought about his demise. Cryptic (now being dead) has no control over the bitching and moaning about his city's downfall. What's the problem in just letting him be?

Also, I *strongly* advise (I know, advice from a low-ranking loud mouth) that someone set forth ANY form of barrier between the coffee shops and what goes on in our world. Either that, or rid the whole barrier entirely, and force gatherings of coffeeshop friends to be non-existent. If we can't allow groups to meet in coffeeshops without having their tongues tied to the happenings of this world, we will lose what makes the coffeeshops great.

Also, I *strongly* advise (I know, advice from a low-ranking loud mouth) that someone set forth ANY form of barrier between the coffee shops and what goes on in our world. Either that, or rid the whole barrier entirely, and force gatherings of coffeeshop friends to be non-existent. If we can't allow groups to meet in coffeeshops without having their tongues tied to the happenings of this world, we will lose what makes the coffeeshops great.

Presuming you are speaking about balian's comments.....it was ok for that particular coffee corner to be used to discuss taking down New York, but on the flip side, it shouldn't be used as a basis to remove the threat? Excellent logic there. Their tongue was tied to the happenings of this world because they were discussing the happenings of this world. 

Your advice is also a few years too late, Tigger. It is well known how adamantly my ancestors campaigned against the integration of the coffee shops with our business.  Too bad, that ship has sailed a long time ago. You can even keep track of happenings in this world, for example, whether or not someone has sent you money or made an attempt on your life, without even being here.

The coffee shops ARE as much a part of this world as the streets these days. It should not be that way, but it is.To say otherwise is to be arguing for an ideal rather than accepting the reality of the situation.

My ancestors waved that ship goodbye from the shore.

It was a sad moment.

Marley walks over

I hate coffee, but I tend to enjoy an expresso from time to time.

I really wish that members of MY city refrained from defending the fallen members from OTHER cities when they obviously don't know what happened behind closed doors at all.

So Tigger, please pay attention when you listen to my friend Deimne. He never said he was holding Cryptic responsible for the whiny children. He said that it's the whiny chidren that don't let Godfather Cryptic rest in peace.

And Tigger, as to your STRONG advise, I think the way the coffeeshops work is just fine. It is a place where you can chat with your buddies about anything not family related. Even those people who could be considered your enemies can talk to you without any hard feelings since you are not discussing family matters. But as soon as you discuss private family matters, you are the one breaking the barrier. That is why Balian was killed over something said in a coffee shop and that's why Cryptic's words were quoted in here.

"Presuming you are speaking about balian's comments.....it was ok for that particular coffee corner to be used to discuss taking down New York, but on the flip side, it shouldn't be used as a basis to remove the threat? Excellent logic there. Their tongue was tied to the happenings of this world because they were discussing the happenings of this world."

Thanks, Hoopi. However, I *wasn't* talking about balian's comments. I'm quite in agreement about how the whole thing went down. I was referring to the fact that anything said in the coffeeshops is "fair game" for use in matters concerning this world. Some people are what I refer to as "paste eaters", who take what someone says in jest, and tells others as if it were direct threats. I'm not saying that applies in this case, however it seems to be happening more and more in recent times.

FlyingPig, I'm aware of the uses of these coffeeshops, and I am quite in disagreement about it as well. You say it's "arguing for an ideal"... Well, I'll do it quite gladly.

Marley, you're just an absolute asshat.

"I really wish that members of MY city refrained from defending the fallen members from OTHER cities when they obviously don't know what happened behind closed doors at all."

Godfather CrazyNine, I defended a single soul from the fallen city, and that was Godfather Cryptic. I apologize if that angered you, however it seemed as though Cryptic wasn't going to defend himself. I suppose I might oblivious to the situation behind his demise, but I thought Deimne just informed us all? If the reasons given by Deimne *aren't* the reason for Cryptic's death, and the *REAL* reasons are "behind closed doors", then, yes. I don't know what happened.

Trots off on his amazing horse.

You are certainly testing my patience. If you have a death wish, you can come out and tell me so in the privacy of my office and I can make arrangements for you.

You forgot to laugh when you called a member of my crew and a member of YOUR city an asshat, so I won't take it as you were joking.

And it sounded more like you were confronting Deimne on a misinterpretation of his words rather than a defense of Cryptic.

You sound almost worse than the kin of an LV soldier! Perhaps you should revise your loyalties and choose your battles better next time.

Mr Tigger  better think twice and in your case thrice before you speak, got to remember in whose ship you are getting shelter right now, that will make life a lot simpler and better.