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My opinion on the matter is short and sweet.  I fucking hate it when mine get stolen but as Godfather CrazyNine put it I won't tie my families hands till there is a consensus of all the GFs.   These MIAs spawn within 30 minutes of creating them.  If the gods didn't want any competition in killing them, they would have set them to spawn in seconds so that the purchaser had a 99% chance of getting the kill. 

Having said that, I applaud Gwarble and the great city of LA for taking this stand on stealing MIAs.  And I wish you the best of luck.

I believe I read something about this in one of my fathers journals, although I could be completely incorrect here...

PJ, Scipita, and Deimne if memory serves me correctly from the start. Then Iota, Lucretia, Quirinius, Pedro and Kates joined in at a later date.

What does this decision have to do with that Society? Are you telling me this motion, this rule is your destiny?

The reference to 'the Honored Society' was that in the past the Godfathers of the cities have banded together regarding issues of integrity and honour in our thing because they transcend our petty inter-city rivalries (like getting an extra kill in) and instead threaten to damage it.

Then it was the killing of -48 Hour Gangsters, now it is the killing of other people's contracts. There is no honour in stealing from a friend of ours. The reason I asked you to identify the participants was because one man who spearheaded such a venture was your Godfather.

If you believe this to be about a lack of ability or intelligence, then you're clearly deaf. I made it quite clear from the beginning of this what I was concerned with, respect and honour - two of the most important principles of Cosa Nostra, which as a Don you are meant to understand. This isn't about right or wrong, this is about the integrity of our thing. You would rather score some easy kills than protect the fundamental values that makes us well, everything that we are? Are you so lustful for a kill that you would place another notch on your gun above respect? Above honour?

Since you are in the business of quoting me, perhaps you should jot this one down for future reference. We are not gunslingers, murderers or serial killers. We should not be foaming at the mouth at the prospect of another kill; we are enforcers for our family. We serve the family, not our own egos or legacy. We do this because we are in the mafia and we have long since adopted codes of honour that separate us from the rest of the scumbags. Without them, what are we?

This is about far more than a case of 'tying members' hands' or handicapping each other. It should be about protecting the principles of Cosa Nostra across America and we can only start doing that with our own city. I believe that as leaders and Godfathers we are tasked with ensuring that the principles and essential tenets of Cosa Nostra are protected, because if we do not protect them, then who will?

As my Godfather has already implied, from discussion on IRC Avenue (and from the recent changes) it is clear that City Hall have noticed this dishonorable practice as well. Perhaps rather than being steered, we should guide the ship in the direction we feel to be most appropriate, whilst we have an opportunity to do so.

I would welcome all the Cities to stand beside us and uphold the values that make us better than the muck on the streets.

Looks at Gwarble and smiles..

Gwarble.. I think I was wrong in giving SpaceMountain a walking stick when he became Godfather. I think you should have it instead as you're the Wise old one.

Diablos grins.. and takes a breath

Anyways... Very nicely said my friend. I salute you and I agree this is a fantastic way to protect what we are as the mafia!. If anyone also finds a member of Guiscard Enterprises stealing an MIA and have clear proof of it then if Robert is not around then report it to myself should I be awake.

Diablos quickly turns around..

Oh as long as its binds in with the 30 Minute abandon rule. I don't want to be dealing with people who report to me if they can't simply count 30 minutes from when they turned Gangster and say.. 'He stole my MIA!'. As if you do.. then your answer will be a simple one. 'Learn to count'.

Diablos smiles and begins smiling at Gwarble

Hearing what is being said Marco stops in his tracks and nods in agreement to what Gwarble was saying...

"Personally i agree totally with Gwarble on this and i for one would vote in favour of a ban on stealing MIA's" Marco remarks before tipping his hat and walking off down the street.

I don't think your argument is fundamentally wrong, Gwarble. I just don't think that MIAs belong to individuals. To me it's the same as someone paying the local police to fill the city jail so you can practice your jail breaking. There's nothing worse then having all your 20 guard people being broken out by random people but the jail doesn't belong to you. We are not slave traders. We cannot own people.

I see no issue with the killing of anothers contract.  Why would I want to support the building of cannons in other cities?  That certainly doesn't benefit my family or the city in which we reside.  Whatever floats your boat I guess.  Just because this motion doesn't make sense to me doesn't mean their isn't a method to the madness.  Good luck to ya.

What appears to be being lost in the translation here is that I'm not advocating that people stop taking out contracts altogether. What I am suggesting is that you stop stealing the contracts of others.

The idea that doing this would in some way benefit other cities is a bit redundant; why would they suddenly become super powerful just because you stopped stealing? Do you think they don't take out more than one contract, but rather just throw their hands up and holster their weapon forever?

Similarly the idea that this would weaken you in some way is equally invalid; you would still take out your maximum number of contracts. The only difference is that you would be doing it honourably and respectfully.

I'm not sure I can explain why this isn't about individuals, single cities or lone families any more than I already have done. We promote honour and respect, but this practice is neither honourable nor respectful. Nothing anyone has said so far has suggested to the contrary of this, which should be evidence enough that it needs to be addressed. The reasons for not supporting this are based out of some fear that they would be either hindering themselves or helping rivals, which is really not the case.

Kilroy, if contracts do not belong to the individual, why do they appear in only your personals? Why do only you pay to take them out? Only you receive the location? Why don't they appear on the streets (locals list) before turning Gangster? Hell, one even set me up as a contact!

Well Gwarble, then why do only the buyers know of where they place they pay for the Crackdown?  You can find the MIAs just like you can find the Crackdowns.  They are all publicly known details of this world.

Gwarble, I completely see your point of view on the matter. If we stop stealing each other's MIA's then we will be forced to take them out ourselves and take the hit. I agree that this would be the honorable thing to do. We as mafiosi are all about the codes set forth.

However, you did say that hitting use to be something that not everyone should be good at and it was meant for those that are dedicated hitters. I just fail to see how this up holds that at all. If anything this would guarntee more than anyone can train a gun.

If someone got every MIA they spawned they would get 45 kills a month. After ten months (which isn't abnormal for an account to last that long) they could be sitting with a 450 kill gun. That could be anyone that has a gun that could easily kill 90% of the mafiosi in this thing of ours.

I personally agree that MIA's should not be stolen but I fail to see how it's anymore honorable to allow some to train of MIA's than RIAs/IAs. If someone will train a gun then it's destined to happen.

When I get beat to RIA/IA I don't get upset and say that's not honorable. I mean there's people that get one kill a day and people that get 5-10 a day. Is that not honorable?

Like I've said, I like the idea behind it but until every city agrees to it then it could hinder your family. Not because of lack of kills but CD's cost money in two ways. The drug money we make and the money from another world.

I'd like to see all the Godfather's come together and agree on something like this. Maybe stick to the "No shooting an MIA that you didn't spawn unless it's been sitting for 30 minutes and is therefor abandoned".

I wish you and the city of Los Angeles luck with this venture Gwarble.

The big benefit of buying the contract is you're given all the information you need in advance but if someone else does the work to find the target and beats you to it then I just don't see this as stealing anything. The contract may be yours but the person the contract is on is not.

You speak of honour and killing together like they are two of the same thing... Honour and killing never belong together, not in any world or any sense of the word.

When you pay for the information provided in a contract you do not buy that person's life.

It makes no business sense to ban your members from killing these people. You pay approximately 200k (at a good time!) for a contract... three contracts in two days which is 45 in 30 days as Kilroy said. By not paying for that information you save yourself $9,000,000 in 30 days. In my opinion, you'd be silly to turn your nose up at that kind of money.

That being said, it is up to you what rules you go by. I wish you the best of luck.

In my opinion, this stems from a basic component of our world. Why do we do any of this? Greed. We want more, and we want it at the least cost to us. For instance, we extort money from people so we don't have to earn it ourselves. We have our associates earn money for us, so we have a bigger balance at the end of the week. I'm not saying they substitute our income, we just take money from people... Just because it's money and we want it.

Now, how does this apply to MIAs? Simple. You said:

"Similarly the idea that this would weaken you in some way is equally invalid; you would still take out your maximum number of contracts. The only difference is that you would be doing it honourably and respectfully."

However, the latter is incorrect. The reason people steal MIAs from each other is so they don't have to pay for them yourself. It may be honorable and respectful, but also more expensive. In that way, it would weaken us.

When I said Kilroy I obviously meant JakeSully...

It is one of the few aspects that still make this website a game...Play the game, and stop running for president people...

I've thumbed through my fair share of city hall records to find numerouse gangsters running around at all hours..None of which had a name on them except for they all were branded with the same tattoo....Missing In Action

I've never really had a problem with getting ripped off or anything, but I suppose it's a noble assertion, and I'll support it.

Actually AfroSamurai you never even addressed Kilroy at all.

Also I've simply reiterated other's words about honor and killing. From what I've understood this is about doing the most honorable thing when it does come to killing. At least that's what I was under the assumption this conversation was over, if it wasn't please direct me towards the conversation titled "P & K Industries & MIA's".

Secondly, I stated that by banning his members it only hurts him by making his hitters pay for those contracts. Which you successfully broke down to being $9,000,000 a month. So this will cost him $9,000,000 per month per hitter. Which I said would only hinder him by forcing more money to be spent since his members cannot steal MIA's either.

So what is it that you were meaning to address to me AfroSamurai? The fact that you agree it will cost a lot of money and it can hurt business? I apologize for trying to keep my words on subject involving honor and killing, but I was simply going off of what the conversation was about from what I understood of it.

Seriously... I have to say this again?

When I said Kilroy I obviously meant JakeSully...

Like I said previously, honour and killing are in two completely different ballparks.. You cannot put them in the same sentence (other than the one I just did).

Sorry Jake, but I actually don't get the point in your response... other than re-agreeing with me agreeing with you on the financial side of it. Unless of course you are trying to be difficult for diffculties sake, which I find most bizarre.