Please go back and read what you addressed to the masses, nowhere did you address Kilroy or myself, you simply began speaking as if it was to anyone that cared to listen.

I really don't get the point in re-iterating the financial side anyways. You spoke as if you disagreed with what I said. So instead of addressing me about honor and killing you should be addressing everyone. I didn't make a speech involving it I'm simply giving my two bits. Thank you though for telling me what I can't put in the same sentence together.

So I will sum this up, and if I missed something then I give into whatever it is that you're trying to get out of this.

1.) You didn't address anyone in anything, at least after I made a presence in the streets today.
2.) You say you're addressing me so you're telling me that "It would be silly to turn my nose up to that kind of money" when LA's money has nothing to do with me. So excuse me for being confused as to why I am addressed on that matter.
3.) What I put into a sentence is my words, it may not be right according to you, but it's what is being discussed. So please don't address me as if I am the only person using those two words in the same sentence.

Unless I missed something, which I may very well have since I am extremely confused as to why I'm being addressed individaully on a public matter. I apologize for it because I'm simply trying to give my two bits on the situation.

The point of the streets is to address the public, on a matter like this it's brought people to voice their opinion. I don't see the point in telling someone their opinion is wrong and such. Now I understand why young mafiosi are so worried about saying anything in the streets, because it will be nit picked to no end and they'll be told how wrong they are.

As for myself, I'm done with this conversation. I through my opinion out there, it can be accepted or rejected, but I don't have to take being ridiculed. Good day.

Although this is somewhat entertaining, I'm pretty sure he's neither fighting with you nor ridiculing you Sully.  

Quoting Samurai

three contracts in two days which is 45 in 30 days as Kilroy said. 

JakeSulky you are getting your panties in a twist over absolutely nothing. Unlike most I was addressing the ORIGINAL speech made. I happened to notice that YOU had mentioned the '45 contracts in 30 days' and thought instead of completely ignoring you that I would give you some credit and some affirmation in those numbers. I can honestly say now that I should never have bothered giving you any credit for what you said, as you blatantly didn't listen to a word I said.

Thank you, sureshot.

Advantage - This is not a reason that the practice is honourable or respectful and you can only find the MIA once it has already turned Gangster. City Hall are making changes regarding MIAs, I believe I would rather attempt to handle this ourselves, rather than have the matter taken out of hands.

JakeSully - MIAs are here and they are here to stay. The point of this was not to address the fact that MIAs get killed because it is one of those things that will not change. You have to accept this and move on.

How many people do you know who actually have a 450 kill gun? Whilst it is all well and good to bandy figures like that around, it is entirely misleading to pretend that everyone is capable of doing that in reality, mainly because they aren't.

You've misunderstood where the problem is. The issue is that stealing someone else's contract is disrespectful and dishonourable, whether they should be taking out contracts in the first place is not the issue. As I opened to you with, MIAs are here, they are available to everyone and they aren't going anywhere. Nothing is going to change that.

The difference between RIA and IAs is obvious in the distinction between them. You didn't take out the contract on an RIA or IA. Again, the dishonour is in the stealing, not the volume accumulated. If you steal 5-10 MIAs (which I know is not possible) then that is an extremely dishonourable practice for the reasons already explained.

This will not hinder my family or Los Angeles. My men are more than capable of comfortably handling the purchase of credits and I fail to see this as a legitimate concern. If a family is not capable of supporting each other, even in something as simple as this, then they really aren't much of a family.

I'd like to see all the Godfathers come together and agree on this, but if they choose not to, Los Angeles at least will take the honourable route.

Kilroy - I think we'll have to leave it there. It doesn't seem like we're going to reach an agreement regarding ownership.

AfroSamurai - As I've explained to JakeSully the honour isn't in the killing, the honour is in not being a dirty thief. If you're happy to be a dishonourable thief to save money, that is up to you.

Los Angeles believe that the honour and integrity of Cosa Nostra is more important than any amount of money and will happy forsake the latter to protect the former. Whilst this is business, it is an honourable one.

Azimuth - I don't perceive us acting like the honourable and respectable men we are meant to be to weaken us. I believe it would make us and our thing much stronger.

Greed, when it compromises the fundamental tenets of Cosa Nostra, is a very bad thing.

<blockquote>If you, as someone who has earned the title of Boss in Philadelphia, take out a contract on an MIA, it would be dishonourable of me to attempt to steal that away from you. I'm not a thief, I'm in the mafia. My members aren't thieves, they too are in the mafia. They are honourable men and women or at the very least associates striving to reach that level. We have a hierarchical society, built upon the principles of honour and respect for a reason. It is these that separate us from the gutter scum.</blockquote>

"Sure, shooting another man's MIA is stealing... pickpocketing is stealing. We are mobsters but we are also theives, in fact stealing is how we managed to become mobsters. Some people stoled my MIA's.... are my to stand here and let them do it. If they want to give me competition, i sure as hell will return the favor. I am sorry Gwarble, this is a very honorable gesture but i cannot follow it. Unless my Godfather or CL forbides it of course. Hell, i carry a tatoo that strickly forbides pickpocketing. And even with the rank of Capo, a Boss tried to pickpocket me yesterday. I am not going to mention his name because that is not my type, this is my issue and no one else's. But what i want to say here is that the bottom line is.... most people here are thieves unfortunately. And a lot of them have no idea what the word respect means. The bottom line is... people dont respect each other and for that reason this practice will always be carried out. Unless godfathers clearly agree's to forbide it! I haven't stoolen anyones MIA yet... but i cannot promise i wont. Unless i am told otherwise by my own Boss or Godfather."

Sneakyrat tips his hat to Gwarble and steps down...

From what i hear i think, correct me if i am wrong, the problem occurs that we are stealing from each other? Much like there is no problem hitting a regular IA as he is joe blogg off the street.

In a global picture we are all one big family in the sense that we plot to steal/sell against the government and joe bloggs of the world and as long as we do that then we run like happy families. The problem arises when we start to step on other people toes then the balance is upset.

The take i see with Gwarbles point is that we are stealing from each other much like if i was to go steal money from Gwarble's businesses and try to get an advantage against him i am sure he would be pissed.

While it is easy and naive to think "we are mobsters, stealling; its what we do", i was raised to carry some repsect towards your fellow mafioso.

My great grandads papa's dad has had people steal his MIAs and i have been witness to people gloating about their so called triumphs in stealing other people's and while i can see the point that its all up for grabs, i still believe their should be some level of respect when it comes to hunting other people's contracts.

The best asset of this world is that we are constantly evolving and new era's are approaching thus making debates like this one tricky as it crosses many lines of our beliefs.

Putting aside the context of the MIA issue, given that each city can do as they please, it is unquestionable that honour and respect play a fundamental part in cosa nostra and our history. This seems to be escaping some people, from the brief snippets I've heard.

Back in context, how far that honour and respect stretches is up to us. However, when the end result is exactly the same - ie, we ultimately all take our MIA killing to the allowable limit anyway - is it really so unbelievable or questionable that some have decided not to steal from their fellow 'men of honour'?

As has been said, kill competition has very little to do with it in the end. Ultimately, we will all end up with the same notches on our belt through MIAs. This comes down to one mafioso, putting his hand in another mafioso's pocket. Not for a paltry 5k, but for a couple of hundred thousand dollars.

If you don't agree, you don't agree, but LA implementing this initiative does not affect anyone else adversely. Whether other cities agree is another matter, but not necessarily a vital one to LA's approach.

Those of you that are arguing that it's perfectly acceptable to steal other people's contracts, let me ask you this: Do you find yourself irritated or a bit outraged when someone other than you steals your contracted hit? The contract you paid for yourself and was assigned specifically to you?

I realize, as i'm sure everyone else does, that it's been known there could be a chance you don't make the hit. However, if you took out the contract don't you think that you should have a higher chance of making it to the hit? If something happens to you on your way to the hit and delays you, or you get distracted with other business then it's your own fault and I can see where someone else might finish the job.

I've overheard conversations from across the nation where people have had their contracts stolen right out from under them. Their reactions weren't 'oh well, my contract was stolen along with the money I spend to buy it'. Reactions were more like 'I'm going to find whoever did this and make them pay. They're going to wish they'd never taken that shot'. With the way of the lifestyle we live here, I doubt that many would have the former reaction to someone stealing directly from them.

Well that is not really the way it turned out Evangeline... the MIA's i have be stolen of were taken from me the second the targets became old enough to die. So you see, laziness had nothing to do with it. The targets were boldly stolen from me, and because of this... i would never change my ways until my leaders ask me to. If i spot a MIA... he will die by my gun, at least i will fight for it. It is wishful thinking that i would stand here and let the others have their way with me. Now lets not mixed the apples with the oranges. A bad apple, is a bad apple. The one that steals from me is a bad apple!

Though I respect your decision to do this Gwarble, and I understand that it can seem disrespectful to steal peoples MIA's but I really don't see how honour has anything to do with it. I see many people preach about honour and as I have mentioned before in my own street speech honour has no place here.

Now me personally I don't steal MIAs though I use to, but the effort to find MIA's in the same city as me then trying to beat the owner to the kill was too much for a lazy bastard like me. BUT what I would do and still do is go after those untouched MIA’s. In fact if I do find an unturned MIA in my city, then once it has turned I give the owner one whole minute to kill it. If they don’t then I will. People who pay for MIA contracts should know they have to be capable of flying and shooting when the moment approaches.

So for me I will respect whoever bought this MIA and give them a chance to kill their MIA, but if they take too long then they lose that kill and the money they spent on it. If everyone acted like this then I would be fine with it. I know before stealing MIA’s was common place but I do think now we should show some respect and let the owner of the MIA have their chance at least.

I would be glad to see some new rule implemented by all the city heads that gives the owners of those MIA’s at least one minute to kill it once it has turned, they shouldn’t need more than one minute.

I assume you came to this conclusion for your family which has now spread to all of LA of not stealing MIA’s because you yourself were the victim of having your MIA stolen as well as maybe some friends of yours. I even noticed you asking for a WS of a particular MIA. One question though, if you did find that WS what would you have done to the person? Because right now stealing MIA’s is allowed, and every person who contracts a MIA knows they could have it stolen off them, it’s the chance they take.

I never have had a MIA stolen from me, it’s actually quite difficult now days for someone to steal your MIA unless you leave them for too long, then that’s your own fault

So for me I will respect whoever bought this MIA and give them a chance to kill their MIA, but if they take too long then they lose that kill and the money they spent on it. If everyone acted like this then I would be fine with it. I know before stealing MIA’s was common place but I do think now we should show some respect and let the owner of the MIA have their chance at least.

This.... i approve totally. If the person takes more than a minute to kill his MIA, than the MIA becomes everyones target. Twice in the same week my MIA was shot by someone else the moment he became old enough to die. To this, i have no respect. We are talking about over 230k approximately a target, now that is what i call stealing big time. Not only from me, but from my boss and my Godfather. Total disrespect and i am not going to sit here and let it happen. The is no rule againts it, so i will do the same to the ones that bodly took my cash. If a rule is implemented, that is another matter.

I understand that it can seem disrespectful to steal peoples MIA's but I really don't see how honour has anything to do with it. I see many people preach about honour and as I have mentioned before in my own street speech honour has no place here.

Honour has no place where? There's only so many times reference to honour being part of cosa nostra roots can be noted. Among various other codes, is the mafia not based on honour and respect? If you think not, then you are wrong. Remove the context about MIAs...as has been said, it's almost irrelevant because we ALL end up taking our 'allowance', for want of a better term. What is being addressed here is theft amongst men of honour. Not insignificant theft at that.

Despite your comment, you then go on to describe how you do infact act quite honourably with regards to other peoples' MIAs.

Sneakyrat, to be honest, it's hard to follow what you're saying, but with regards to your response to Evangeline, I might be wrong but I think she was talking about the MIAs that are stolen on the second they turn and not those lost through "laziness" as you put it (ie, people forgetting or being held up elsewhere).

Yes Hoopi... let me clarify. When someone takes a contract on a MIA, his target becomes his first priority. If he becomes lazy or distracted as Evengelina stated than he is not doing his family a favor. He is spending his profits on a MIA and is not there to fill in his contract. In this case, i understand the people that decide to carry out the contract in his place. Excuse me for not beeing clear, but my toung tends to twist sometimes. Now on a second example... a person takes a contract on a MIA kill and is at the right place, at the right time... ready to fire when the target approaches and yet someone else comes out of the blue and takes the kill away from him. Now this one, i have no respect. If a MIA is forgotten than i would probably be the first to kill him if i noticed the prize. I see no honor in a man/woman who is ready to shoot a MIA when the owner is ready and in time for the kill. But if the owner is too "lazy" to fill in his contract... than it is far different. I hope that this clarify's my thoughts for you Hoopi.

I find it laughable that mobsters would preach about honour, these same mobsters who sell drugs, extort the innocent, kill people in their sleep, and break the laws of society. We are mobsters, ruthless killers, not knights in shining armour. If you wish to call yourself an honourable man just so you can sleep better at night then so be it, but you would only be lieing to yourself.

What is being addressed here is theft amongst men of honour

Don't we steal purses off innocent ladies? If I were to steal your MIA I would be stealing a rivals MIA. You are not my family, and I am not a man of honour, but I am not going to be a annoying and steal your MIA even though I think there is nothing wrong with me doing so, as I don't think there is anything wrong if you were to steal my MIA's. But I will be respectful and give you a minute to kill your MIA. If enough people cry over their MIA's being stolen and the city heads put in a rule in regards to this I would accept that.

I don't act honourable, I act respectful with other peoples MIA's

There is a very clean cut line that separates us from the others; We extort those who have no honor. We rob from those who do not follow our codes, our way of life. We deal to lowlifes who haven't the slightest idea what honor is. However, amongst ourselves? Initiating an activity that can cause tension, frustration, and perhaps even a good relationship turned sour for the glory of another notch on your belt is greedy and disingenuous at best to your common man - common man being our fellow countrymen who follow our standards - Omerta, respect - and provocative at worst. However, I do agree with some that a certain amount of time should pass before the contract is considered free game, as it's not practical to outright ban the practice due to what could be extenuating circumstances on behalf of the hitter, but I will respect and abide by the route my Godfather takes on this matter.

There is a very clean cut line that separates us from the others; We extort those who have no honor. We rob from those who do not follow our codes, our way of life.

Well said.

Snip, what I find laughable is that as a Made Man, you have just demonstrated having absolutely no understanding about what the Mafia is or what your own rank even symbolises. The fact you consider yourself not to be a man of honour when that is exactly what your rank determines you to be is beyond worrying.

As myself and various other people have already stated, the principles of honour and respect within Cosa Nostra aren't just things we've conjured up to suit our purpose, they are the very principles that separate us from the gutter rats. This isn't open to debate or for interpretation, this is fact. After seeing this display from you and similarly inept opinion from others here, I'm more convinced than ever that the cities need to set aside their rivalries and set about safe guarding Cosa Nostra for future generations.

Ignoring the context of MIAs for a moment, answer me this: If you stole $210,000 from me, would that be a respectful act by you?

I am not a man of honour

It may just be me but that seems a fairly damning thing for a Made Man to be saying.

"Ignoring the context of MIAs for a moment, answer me this: If you stole $210,000 from me, would that be a respectful act by you?"

Shooting an MIA that someone else bought the information on their whereabouts isn't stealing.  It just means I was able to find the information for free while you spent 200,000 on it.

Directly from the man that sells this information:

"You will be given the name and location.
Despite this, there is no guarantee that you will get this kill."

I may be mistaken FreddieCleanPants, but it seems to me like an earner should not be questioning a made man from another city in the streets and trying to stir shit either.

Anyhow, I am sure Snip chose his words with care as the whole point of his comment was to say that he as a mobster is not honourable, nor are any of us, we are respectful.