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| Made man - Prove it. | Started by: PrinceofCheese on Mar 12, '08 18:49 |
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Well, I know something had to be done, but I have a few questions/doubts. A) Who in their right mind will ever give a "noob" a reference? That being said, will we see nothing but a perpetual cycle of "oldies" given their button, therefore forcing those newer to our life to give up? B) What happens when Earner A, Earner B, and Made Man A decide to be a reference for Wise Guy A and once they all get to Made Man +, they go rogue? All you need is one Made Man to get future potential rogues the rank they need to do some damage? C) What happens when Made Man A, now ranked up to Consigliere A and Made Man B, Made Man A's old buddy who helped by giving him a reference get into a simple coffeeshop argument? Made Man B: "Fuck you. I don't like you anymore." Consigliere A: "So? What're you gonna do about it?" Made Man B: "I can go rogue and get your character killed if I want." D) Will clear lines of "disrespect" be spelled out, so that this punishment is known before a reference is given? I mean, we've had Volou (for example...sorry man), who seems to find anyone that disagrees with him to be insulting him. Again, yes, something has needed to be done...and perhaps this is a good move. Personally, I can see "loopholes" that potential rogues and idiots can use to get legitimate players into shit that they don't deserve though. It's one guys opinion though...maybe I'm wrong. |
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| Reply by: Adebayor at Mar 12, '08 20:12 | |
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| It is a nice argument Adebayor. I like to see people speak out what they think andi like this one. | |
| Reply by: LilWayne at Mar 12, '08 20:19 | |
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A) Different people will take different risks. "n00bs" have time to make an impact and demand respect. This initiative should not be an exercise in being a total scab. People who deserve it and you feel are worth it should be given the chance. In saying that though, people seem to all think made man is a right, it's not, a limited populous should be able to get it. I personally don't think many n00bs should get made man, at least not in 10-15 days...that's tough, respect doesn't grow on trees, one has to earn it B) Irrelevant, if this is the way they want to be they will go rogue anyway so it's same result. If this initiative forces people to be more strategic and intelligent in how they play then so be it. As I said already, this scheme does not guarantee your promotion. It is merely a component. If you are dodgy as fuck you are not getting promoted, regardless of your reference requirement success C)If you reference impulsive idiots, then the axe will most likely falleth on your head. This is an example of the "tough shit" circumstance D)This one will be carefully discussed amongst leaders, I think we will have to do it case by case to begin then as precedent is set we will outline more direct scenarios. Nothing is perfect from day 1 but I hope the above clarifies my opinions on your questions Adebayor. Other leaders can feel free to express their thoughts as well and we are open to impvovement and suggestions at all times. |
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| Reply by: PrinceofCheese at Mar 12, '08 20:19 | |
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It's not meant to be an argument really. These are just points I wanted to make, as even if they are unlikely, could be possible "problems". Again, it's just one guys opinion. |
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| Reply by: Adebayor at Mar 12, '08 20:20 | |
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I have another question sir, if you could spare a moment? In the event that 1 or 2 or even all of your referees happen to be sinking to the bottom of the Hudson with a bullet through their brain as a consequence of war, or they retire, or something along those lines, what would be the course of action? |
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| Reply by: Security at Mar 12, '08 20:25 | |
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The only problem I see with this is Rogues. Why the hell would a rogue care about who gets shot because of him? If he can BS his way to Made Man, then whos to say he can't BS somebody to be his reference? If hes going to go rogue, he doesn't care who dies. It doesnt matter who you are, you can always lie about who you are... |
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| Reply by: The_Falcon at Mar 12, '08 20:27 | |
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| If you lie about who you are and people are stupid enough to fall for it then hard eeeze to them as they will die for your indiscretionrs. People need to learn who to trust and to methodically select the correct candidates for this honour. | |
| Reply by: PrinceofCheese at Mar 12, '08 20:31 | |
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| But all of that is a game of chance.... I could tell you that I am a girl from flordia, who is 18. How the hell would you know anything else? The only way to know FOR SURE who they are is to know them in real life.... Anybody can BS.... And alomost everyone believes it. | |
| Reply by: The_Falcon at Mar 12, '08 20:37 | |
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| if you were an 18 year old girl from Florida you wouldn't be in this community...as there is no such place...not to mention i dont know to many 18 year old girls in organized crime... | |
| Reply by: PietroPorkchop at Mar 12, '08 20:40 | |
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Remember ladies and gentlemobsters.... Being handed you MADE button is one of the biggest oppritunities of your life regardless. The promotion should be rigorous, this is something you have to deserve. I'm not sure if having people vouch for you is good enough. Your actions need to show obvious respect to others around you. |
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| Reply by: BostonGeorge at Mar 12, '08 20:52 | |
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| I speak a lot. I think I should be a Made Man. | |
| Reply by: IncogRevan at Mar 12, '08 23:12 | |
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Great idea etc I am just thinking of these things A.... someone that goes rogue does not care about the life of others. B.... It will be VERY intresting to see this in action if indeed someone who vouched for a rogue is a close family friend and what special treatment and acceptions are made since we all know it will happen. C.... Are the leaders who agreed to this going to implement on there own familys or try take the matters in there own hands with the other familys, thus leading to war and more death. A young man sits back and awaits to hear an answer. Creeper |
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| Reply by: Creeper at Mar 13, '08 03:07 | |
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Sigh, Just.. sigh. Figures this happens the day I get my option to be promoted. What about someone like me who casually robs a few 7-11s and does a few felonies. I do drug runs as often as I can, for what reason? To make my boss money, plain and simple. Now because I haven't spent an enormous amount of time "networking" like some others have, I have no references, and I will not move past Wise Guy. Oh well. 10% of 20 units of drugs will have to do :( BP |
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| Reply by: BreakPoint at Mar 13, '08 03:11 | |
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Breakpoint, I think that is part of the point, a Mademan isn't someone who casually robs a few 7-11s and does a few felonies. Anyone can do that, once you are a Mademan, your officially part of the family, your not just earning money anymore, your helping make decisions, your supporting other members, your helping run the family in any way you can. If all you do is casually robs a few 7-11s and does a few felonies, all your doing is earning cash which any thug can do. I do foresee some interesting situations though. Lets say you did get duped by a smart talking Wiseguy who you believed was an honest, respectable mafioso and decided to vouch for him. Then, a few weeks down the line, it turns out he's not so respectful and he goes rogue, your life is now forfeit! In this situation, it might encourage people to "go out with a bang" rather than die for, what is essentially their mistake in being too trusting but your death is caused by someone else's actions. That being said, this a solution to a problem which needs addressing. It will inevitably have teething problems and people will eventually find loopholes but, if our society is safer as a result of making it harder for people to get made and go rogue, then I'm all for it. Leaders always talk about making changes and making this world a better world, I think this may be the biggest, most innovative change and move in the right direction witnessed for a long long time! |
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| Reply by: Rhuarc at Mar 13, '08 03:55 | |
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With all due respect this idea is probably the worst one i have ever seen in my family lines long history of working within the mob, it is laughable. As has already been said it creates problems for the quieter mafioso who believes actions speak louder than words and just work hard for their CL instead of having idle chit chat with higher ranked persons. It also makes me lose all confidence in the family heads we have in power now as they seem to fear anyone who gets their button. I thought CLs were meant to be strong leaders? From what i see here the current CLs are finding a way to keep themselves safe by restricting everyone else and that seems like a very cowardly way to achieve success to me. Rogues have been a part of this life of ours since it began and will continue to be long after we are all gone, this idea just makes the decision for the potential rogue to wait around for his earner friends to also get made, then they go together and because he waits he could be at the rank of boss then you have at least 4 rogues (2 at boss 2 at MM) and they will do more damage to a family than just 1 rogue of mademan rank. Everybody dies. Fact. This idea just means people will die in bigger numbers and more damage can be done to a family. On a final note i am bitterly disappointed in the lack of backbone being shown by the CLs here, the greats from the past would turn in their graves Gazman |
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| Reply by: Gazman at Mar 13, '08 08:48 | |
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Well Gazman, evidently you are in the minority. This is not about fear, why should I fear a new made man? This is about putting respect back into the rank and making sure people understand that it is not a default honour. As for your idle chit chat vs actions crap. Obviously if someone is working hard and doing well for the family these actions naturally lend to references. In addtion as I have said repeatedly and you don't seem to comprehend, this is merely a mandatory point, you will still have to comply with all other sujective matters each leader applies. Personally I think your tirade stinks of "I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about" but your opinion is noted. The initiative stands. |
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| Reply by: PrinceofCheese at Mar 13, '08 08:54 | |
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Well POC is agree with Gazman. This is just the CL's being weak, teaming together at the fear of a made man. Why else would you do this? This is the worst idea i have ever seen. And i seriously ruining the game. This 3 reference thing is bullshit, The type of peoplem going rogue realize they are not going to be around forever and will not give a monkeys bollock about thier references. This will just punish thier references for trusting them. Grow a pair, and stop making bullshit ideas like this to change Mafia into friends reuinited. Were not all here to chat shit, we want things to do. And rogues are exciting! |
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| Reply by: Bonzai at Mar 13, '08 09:07 | |
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If by minority you mean the people who wont speak up about this then yes im in the minority cos pretty much everyone ive spoke to says your idea sucks but nobody will come out here and say that to our only Don. I dont know why you would fear a Mademan only someone in your position could know this and as you can see i am evidently not in your position. How does getting 3 people to vouch for you bring respect back to the rank of Mademan? i dont see how it possibly ever could it just means you have 3 friends woooohoooo its not exactly hard to get 3 friends is it? 'Obviously if someone is working hard and doing well for the family these actions naturally lend to references.' Does it though? if someone is only around our streets for say 2/3 hours a day, but for that time they work as hard as is humanly possible and it takes them months to reach WG will this be noticed? I doubt it very much. Personally I think your tirade stinks of "I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about" but your opinion is noted. Well personally i feel your idea stinks of 'Where the fuck did i leave my spine and where have my testes gone?' |
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| Reply by: Gazman at Mar 13, '08 09:12 | |
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Sold! This stinks of blue stilton. Which is a horriffic smelling cheese. The stench left behind by a cheesy knobhead. Sniggers at his insult Sorry....Anyways, im currently pointing alot of my anger and comments of spinelessness at all the other CL's. Please, god, give us a CL or even more amusing a rogue with the balls to take POC cheese and his bullshit ideas out of the game, Anyone? Helllooooo?? Anyone there? |
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| Reply by: Bonzai at Mar 13, '08 09:16 | |
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What game are you talking about? My life is no game.. And what's this about friends reunited? I hardly think Don Cheezo saying he will kill bad references is a friendly gesture. Or perhaps you are talking about the references themselves? I agree with you there, it makes much more sense that someone gets to Made Man without knowing anyone, it's not like La Cosa Nostra is built around networking, is it? Oh, it is? Darn, you're wrong then I suppose. "The type of people going rogue.." Oh. So you can bundle every single person who goes rogue into one stereotype can you? No, you can't. Not all people are the same; and it's a moot point anyway, PrinceofCheese already stated this is as much to do with bringing back prestige and honour to the rank as much as it is to deter rogues. Besides, Gazman already brought across his points in coherent manner, why on Earth did you feel you needed to echo him with your own garbled, half baked sentiments which offer nothing to this debate? |
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| Reply by: Sprozza at Mar 13, '08 09:16 | |
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