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| Made man - Prove it. | Started by: PrinceofCheese on Mar 12, '08 18:49 |
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I still don't understand this game you keep talking about... (OOC: If you lack the intelligence to tick such easy boxes i.e the ability to speak in IC, no one's really going to take you seriously as you're making yourself out to be a fool.) |
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| Reply by: Sprozza at Mar 13, '08 09:18 | |
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I felt the need beause i see a bullshit idea ruining our lives. And just a way of protecting the POC, because he has no testicles what so ever. Much like yourself. Why dont you go crawl back up his ass and lick some more? |
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| Reply by: Bonzai at Mar 13, '08 09:18 | |
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This is not about fear, it is not about stopping people from getting Made, it's about making sure that those that do get Made, have earned it by doing more than a constant stream of petty crimes. Being a Mademan is an honor, an honor which over time has been diluted and the respect inherent in holding the position lost. To get Made isn't something that you should expect, it's something to work towards and work hard at achieving! This will ensure that those that do get Made, are deserving of it as they will be recommended by a fellow Mademan. its not exactly hard to get 3 friends is it? No, it's not hard to get 3 friends, it is however difficult to get someone to trust you to the point of putting their life on the line to vouch for you. Clearly, talking on our streets calling the Don spineless and bollockless is not a respectful thing to do, hence I shall be impressed if you manage to find yourself 3 friends to vouch for you as you, which you have claimed is exactly hard to get. |
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| Reply by: Rhuarc at Mar 13, '08 09:20 | |
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I dont find it hard to get 3 friends whatsoever. I understand that its easy. I just dont agree with the idea. |
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| Reply by: Bonzai at Mar 13, '08 09:23 | |
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i laugh at you saying you have friends. your own mother couldnt love such a moron. |
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| Reply by: KenBates at Mar 13, '08 09:24 | |
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'its not exactly hard to get 3 friends is it? No, it's not hard to get 3 friends, it is however difficult to get someone to trust you to the point of putting their life on the line to vouch for you.' We clearly have 2 different views on what friends are because you described a friend perfectly when you said: it is however difficult to get someone to trust you to the point of putting their life on the line to vouch for you - Thats a friend!! and i only voiced my opinions, Don Cheese decided to speak to me like i was a moron so i decided that i would give my honest view on him and his 'idea' |
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| Reply by: Gazman at Mar 13, '08 09:30 | |
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| About time someone used my ideas. Nice work. :) | |
| Reply by: Grayfox at Mar 13, '08 09:32 | |
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To those against this, I would ask you to tell me what being a Made Man actually means? I could understand concerns about upon what grounds you'll die upon should you be a referee, but to be against references and to to use 'because I don't talk to my family' as your defence, is nonsensical. You should talk to your family. As someone pointed out earlier, the functions of a Made Man are more substantial and important than those of a Wise Guy. The fact that previous leaders didn't give as much value or importance to becoming Made, as the current crop are, doesn't grant you a defence. The fact that others were mistaken and delivered a "Congratulations" mail to anyone the second they had a promotion, whilst they often did fuck all to earn it, does not mean that is the correct method. A bad precedent was set, it is now being overturned and distinguished. |
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| Reply by: Numbers4Glory at Mar 13, '08 09:32 | |
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As being one of the quiet members around these parts ( i have been here 2 years ) i still only personally enjoy talking two people that i got to know a little about. I spend my times mostly in the hqs rooms. As my ranks would get higher the more my opinions would come out on any serious matters. ( that was how i was taught, rank matters unless you were a n00b ). when i reached Made or capo, i was more opinionated on matters. With these rules in place i just have to start as a wiseguy ( i am a slow ranker ) I have a month to get my name out to prove i am worthy of a button. I will even be more proud when i make it this time. I think the ones who rank fast and has a long history are the ones who might have to be cautious on how they proceed. I was always proud everytime my line made mademan because it took so much time for me to achieved the honour, and the last time i played i asked to be demoted to wiseguy because i was not on enough to keep the rank of mademan. I hope this will bring the importance of being of rank again, instead of being someone who is here all day. I also think the strong families will find away to setup things to make us nonspeakers and shy types to get noticed. Stronger subcrews connections will be the key. ( i hope all this will be mafia related and not coffeshop bound, because i do not spend much time there ) My wiseguy opinion |
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| Reply by: Curly at Mar 13, '08 09:32 | |
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Curly, I think more than anyone else here, you just proved the point that this can work and that it can be done and that this just might be a way to bring out what exactly being made means. I have respect to you without even knowing you. |
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| Reply by: Rambo at Mar 13, '08 10:19 | |
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| Exactly. POC said NOTHING about getting your "friends" to vouch for you. He said references. The difference being is a reference is someone who knows you well and knows you can handle the responsibility of being Made. A friend is someone you sit around and shoot the shit with. I know this and Don Cheese knows this as well. | |
| Reply by: Heather_Corleone at Mar 13, '08 15:19 | |
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Part of me doesn't like this so much as i've been largely mute, choosing to speak only when my path crosses another, or i'm stimulated into speech by a question or point posited by someone else. That's the part of me that brings less to the life. Another part of me recognizes that this is how societies like ours operate - through both choice and necessity. The idea of someone being 'made' without a few respected friends to put them forward, isn't short of suicidal. I guess it's a timely reminder of what it means to be made... |
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| Reply by: TFeckinO at Mar 13, '08 16:12 | |
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| Why not make the rule like the real Cosa Nostra rule? You have to have one made man vouch for you and then the boss decides. | |
| Reply by: Cement_Shoes_Joe at Mar 13, '08 17:09 | |
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As with any new idea, there are the apparently obvious drawbacks and benefits, but only once we've seen this plan in action for a period of time will know how it's going to affect the community dynamic. Before then, we're all just surmising, we've really no idea how it's going to go down. On the face of it, I do quite like the idea. I like the thought of someone having to really work to be Made. It's about time we started respecting the made members in this thing of ours a bit more, elevating the status to where it belongs. When we're made, it shouldn't be like any other day, or any other promotion. We should be overwhelmed with a sense of achievement, a sense of being needed in our family and, most of all, a feeling that we've earnt it. I look forward to seeing the improvement of our community as people try to interact more with others to improve relationships, and I also look forward to people being forced to take responsibility for their own actions. There are potential drawbacks of course, not least the fact that this may bring coffee shops even further into the spotlight. There could very well be a situation where these "quiet" members of our community, who do not frequent the coffee shops, are made to suffer because they haven't built the same level of relationships. Having said that, I do believe that is someone wants it badly enough, they will do enough around their family HQ that a MM+ reference will be forthcoming sooner or later. I just hope we do not see the "old friends" act develop, where only coffee shop patrons get Made. As others have mentioned, this is also going to force rogues to get organised. Whilst I accept the point that a 'good' rogue would have done that in the first place, we're now going to see those 'poor' rogues, who otherwise wouldn't have had a great deal of success, have a better chance of success (as they see it) due to them being organised. Of course, we will doubtless see innocent, hard working people fall by the wayside due to poor judgement of character or excellent deception skills. Then again, if you don't want to risk death by association, don't referee, it's as simple as that. On the whole though, I think this adds an interesting dimension to this thing of ours. I'm just surmising for the most part, lets see how this one pans out! |
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| Reply by: Turk at Mar 13, '08 19:07 | |
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*Strolls along and over hears all the commotion..* Well, what a fantastic idea, if this is what it takes to finally get respectable and loyal Made Men around us, than so be it! I am sick to death of mafioso's reaping their way up the ranks, doing absolutly nothing for it, then BOOM!! get given the honour of Made Man and ruins it all by going rogue.. Although..I do still see the same thing happening, with friends of the family leaders getting it easy as they always do.. Meh..who am I to moan about that, if I was leader, i'd no doubt give it easy to friends..but purely on the fact that I know and trust them.. |
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| Reply by: Vassili_Sennheiser at Mar 13, '08 23:42 | |
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What gets me about this idea is that it is showing that families are not close knit. The leaders are willing to take people in to earn money but that seems to be as far as communication with the majority of their members end. As is the norm in many families there are subcrews who report to an underboss who then reports to the RH and Boss about what is going on within the family. When a mademan promotion becomes available these are the people who should be involved in deciding if it has been earned. After all surely your SCl's or whatever you have know who their members are and who they think will in turn become more than just common criminals. |
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| Reply by: SmokingKills at Mar 13, '08 23:53 | |
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As I listen to this debate I am struck by a great irony. It seems that the overwhelming support which has been shown for the Cheesy One's plan, comes, in large part, from those who have already been Made. It comes from those who will be affected the least by these proposed changes. I'm worried that those of high ranks may perhaps be less than objective in their treatment and view of this issue. The plight of the newborn members of this world may not be all that important to those in the heavy bold suits. However, this thing of ours is most certainly not a democracy. It seems we must take what we want and make whatever rules we are strong enough to enforce. |
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| Reply by: petzl at Mar 14, '08 10:47 | |
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Well, I for one am not a Made Woman yet, but I do like and support the idea of having several contacts or 'references' vouch for you. If you consider yourself a well-rounded Mafiosi, you should have no problem finding a handful of people to write up a letter of recommendation to your Boss. This world is built upon several foundations, but the most important should always be communication: something I think is often overlooked when it comes time for those promotions in favor of attributes like donations or bloodline. I think this will be a great way to bridge the gap between silent members of families with more active ones, and perhaps to see more activity among people in the streets, city bar districts and private communication. Great proposal, and it's good to see the leaders of the cities working together to make the world we live in a bit more progressive! |
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| Reply by: Celeste at Mar 14, '08 12:35 | |
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I don't think this idea will stop many people going rogue, its just harsh on the people who are given refernces. I think that either 3 people will go rogue now, and team up together. Or they will just go rogue but not care about their references and whether they die. I personally dont have much of a problem with this, i can get 3 references, its just a bit of a ballache. I just dont think it will prevent rogues in the way intended. I think rogues are a part of life and will always be around. And this shows the CL's fear of them. |
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| Reply by: TheJoker at Mar 14, '08 13:15 | |
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Rumour has it that it is appearing to make the Crew Leaders more weak, if anything. I'm sure that was not the desired effect. I did speak to someone who is naturally contraversial, and he said (toned down a lot so I don't get heaped with the accusations of being disrespectful) that this is only showing the current batch of CLs to not be competent of making good decisions when it comes to promotions to Made Man and above, and so they're relying on this new referencing system. In my opinion, what does this change in the way of the Crew Leader? They would surely discuss promotions with the upper echelons of their family, and gather their opinions on the individual. This just means that the CL will not have to discuss the promotions with the upper echelons anymore, as they can judge it themselves, and using the references. Surely this is to the potentially Made individual's advantage? Since they are able to choose the references? |
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| Reply by: Security at Mar 14, '08 13:46 | |
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